Title : Great dialogue on ABC's "This Week" this morning on the subject, "Will Michael Cohen flip?"
link : Great dialogue on ABC's "This Week" this morning on the subject, "Will Michael Cohen flip?"
Great dialogue on ABC's "This Week" this morning on the subject, "Will Michael Cohen flip?"
From the transcript, with George Stephanopoulos and lawprof/defense attorney Alan Dershowitz, legal analyst Dan Abrams, and former prosecutor Mimi Rocah:
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, PROFESSOR EMERITUS, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Oh, it's a very serious threat [that Cohen will flip on Trump]. This is an epic battle for the soul and cooperation of Michael Cohen. And prosecutors have enormous weapons at their disposal. They can threaten essentially with life imprisonment. They can threaten his parents. They can threaten his spouse. They have these enormous abilities to really put pressure and coerce a witness. On the other hand, the president has a unique weapon that no other criminal defendant or suspect ever has, he has the pardon power. And go back to Christmas 1992 when President Bush exercised that pardon power and pardoned Caspar Weinberger, precluding him from pointing the finger at him....
MIMI ROCAH, CRIMINAL JUSTICE FELLOW, PACE LAW SCHOOL: ...You know, look, that's not what prosecutors do in my experience... They do not threaten people's parents and children. I mean, I just -- I don't know, it sounds good but I don't know where that accusation is coming from.
DERSHOWITZ: Do you want some examples?... Michael Milken, they told him they were going to indict his brother unless he pleaded guilty. Jonathan Pollard, they told him they were going to indict his wife. I can go down case after case after case... I didn't say no basis. I said they threaten relatives and then they create the basis. They wouldn't otherwise go after these people. But they hold these people hostage. That's what prosecutors do. Every defense attorney knows that. And to look in the camera and say that prosecutors don't threaten relatives is to mislead the American public. Sorry....
ABRAMS: .. They got a warrant here not because there was information on Donald Trump that they wanted from Michael Cohen. They got the warrant because there was information on Michael Cohen potentially committing a crime.
DERSHOWITZ: And if you believe that I have a bridge...
ABRAMS: So you're actually going to say that a judge signed off on a warrant...
DERSHOWITZ: Absolutely.
ABRAMS: … to get to...
(CROSSTALK)
DERSHOWITZ: You can get judges to sign off on warrants like Christmas presents.
ABRAMS: To get information on his client? So they signed off on a warrant saying, we want information on his client not on him?
DERSHOWITZ: There's no way in which they would go after Michael Cohen if they weren't interested in his client. They're interested in his client in two different ways. Number one...
ABRAMS: Because there's no way he could have committed a crime by himself.
DERSHOWITZ: He might have. But they wouldn't have found -- they wouldn't have even looked at what he was doing if he weren't the president's lawyer. They're going after him for two reasons. One, to try to flip him, and two, to try to find information that would show that there is an exception to the lawyer-client privilege under the crime fraud....
STEPHANOPOULOS: What is the significance of moving it to the Southern District? Does that somehow protect the investigation if the president chooses to move against Rosenstein or Mueller?
ROCAH: ... I think it was done because Mueller did what any prosecutor and investigator should do, came across criminal activity about apparently Michael Cohen... And it doesn't fall within the mandate of what he's looking at. So he did the absolute appropriate thing, which is referred it to a U.S. attorney's office.
DERSHOWITZ: This is so naive. Came across. Mueller is looking for low-hanging fruit. He's looking for anything...
ROCAH: That's what's called investigating.
DERSHOWITZ: … he can find against anybody who is associated with the president so he can flip them... You know, crime -- broad federal criminal statutes, campaign contributions, bank records, you can find them against almost every very complex business person or political person. The question is how hard you look. And when you look hard, you have enough for a search warrant, which is fairly minimal. And then the pressure increases....
STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you think Michael Cohen flips?
DERSHOWITZ: I think it's very hard not to flip when they're threatening you with long, long imprisonment. But I don't think we know the answer to that question. I don't know enough about Michael Cohen.
ABRAMS: I don't think he flips.
ROCAH: I think he flips because I think he committed a lot of crimes, and he has got a lot of jail time that he's facing for that reason.
ABRAMS: I think he's going to be pardoned. I think he feels confident about that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Pardon?
DERSHOWITZ: I don't think he's going to be pardoned.
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